MOG

daedae - who is fit?

Not much new and McCain buried his one new proposal (buying everybody's mortgage) in the weeds. Both continue their promises to many despite the fact we're broke.

That's a reasonable question Oat. Who is fit?

Lets dispense with the ideal and focus on the reality.

Of the 2 who may be Prez. who is better for the country.

I say give Barack 4 years and if he doesn't cut it get someone else. I say give him a chance. Remember he doesn't make the laws, he only signs them.

2 freakin years, in the grand scheme that is nothing. Plus who knows what kind of Congress he will have after just 2 years in office. It could sway Republican if he does a shitty job.

McCain missed an golden op. to slam Obama though.

Truth to power Cody.

McCain definitely blew his chance in the beginning of the debate, but he's stuck in his campaign rhetoric.  For all his supposed greatness in the Town Hall setting, he basically stuck to the script and his talking points.  Obama stuck ridgidly to his talking points, but he's ahead..So far all three debates have been pretty darn boring.

In the end it comes down to the crushing reality that things are royally f..ed up and McCain is part of the party who's been in charge for most of the ff..ed upedness.

I heard more riff from Barack than from John.

What op are you talking about? My thought was he missed the chance to keelhaul Biden when Obama started in on why all the credit card companies moved to Delaware. Biden helped to usher in those easy regs. for the state.

 Yeah, that's the one..Maybe he voted for something that made it possible?

I think he was so busy making sure he wasn't being condescending to Barack he forgot he was at a debate....He did not hit a home run thats for sure. He needed a home run.

Damnit, I missed it.  Thank God for DVR.

I made it to about the ten minute mark. I had to do a double take when McCain proposed his personal mortgage bailout plan. Then when Obama busted out that he thought it was a good idea and wanted to do it as well, I had to shut it off. I'm protest voting and going third party this time around.

Actually, the little bit I heard about the plan, I liked.  It made sense to me.  Instead of bailing out the banks, bail out the people the banks fucked over.  What am I missing here?

I aggree Troy. Honestly I don't know what the actual plan yet but its on my list of things to read about today. It surprised me that it was proposed by McCain...well not really. But my understanding is that we already bailed the banks out, now we are going to bail out the idiots who bought houses they can't afford? Not that its a bad idea in general since we bailed that banks out, but why in fucks sake did we not do that first and then start talking about the bailing out the banks? Where is all this money coming from????

Maybe it's part of me being pissed that I bought a house I could afford. I can still afford it, but now its not worth what I paid for it. But if I bought something I could not afford the government is now going to step in. Its good to know that big brother is there to help me out in the future with your money if I make a bad decision. When will companies and people be held accountable for bone head decisions?

I guess it's in the bill that the treasury could do what McCain claimed as his idea and Obama said was in the bill...but how? How do they implement that? If one of them could've talked more about that, I think people would've been interested.  Of course, even though folks say they want a deep discourse on the issues, the candidates are afraid of seeming to wonky. It seems like people want to hear that you will fix the problem, done, the end..

It takes a real good politician to explain this stuff. Even if you didn't agree with the policy,Clinton was good at it and Reagan was good at it. That one and this one are just OK at it..

I heard a call in after the debate last night where a guy (both he and his wife were just laid off-he said he was pro-McCain) said he thought a dream ticket would look something like McCain/Obama or Obama/McCain. Maybe that ticket could actually think about putting country first. 'Cause right now it's Democrats Vs. Republicans, with the country's interest lagging far behind.  Even though I think the Dems are better at governing, it's hard to imagine that the 50 million people that are Republican supporters are all completely out to lunch..if the Dems win, those people must be included in the process and vice versa..

Is a 6-8% win enough for a real mandate..That's why Obama should've picked Hillary and gone for a mega landslide that might have produced a true mandate.

Good points Cody. You really are a scholar and a ....cool dude.

Cody?  Scholar?  Sure.  Cool?  Ehhhh...I dunno on that one. :)

Yeah, I think Obama/Clinton would have been a beat-down.  Then again, I'm sure with Obama/Clinton, McCain wouldn't have picked Sarah Palin as his running mate.  And where would the fun be?  I find Sarah Palin incredibly entertaining.

But, yeah, the whole party politics thing gets in the way of what's best for the people.  There should be no parties.  Everyone should be independent.

Thanks Mike..I think you are right to be angry, and that seems to be the emotion a lot of folks are feeling (me too). The candidates pay only lip sevice to it though..the typical, "I understand" spiel..They are focused on winning, not your mortgage payment or the fact I haven't had a job in over a year.

Troy I'm with you. There is nothing cool about Cody B. Seriously, he a geek of epic proportions.

True indeed..guilty as charged. Not really sad about it

Here's what I don't understand:  If you own a house outright and don't pay your taxes, the government can take it.  Fannie and Freddie were the biggest corporation, ever - nothing comes close, meaning their holdings in real estate is in the trillions.  We hand that over to the government, along with helping people who got bad loans (basically letting the gov't fix the pricing or "protect" it).  So at both ends, your beholdant to the government.  Now what happens if you fall out of line, of become a "nuissance"?  The power the government has now plus the new socialist capitalism, could be a dangerous thing.

I agree with you contra. The willingness that so many people have to turn things over to the government is even scarier.

Well, maybe Cody is not a scholar, but a simple man with a simple plan....FUNK THE PEOPLE! Cody for president in 08!

He can't be president, he has to finish his term as Mog Mayor, before he can run for publice office.

Wouldn't Chris just fill in for him as Mayor?

The two of them did starkly illustrate a fundamental difference in philosophy at one point.  Sen. Obama believes that healthcare is the right of every American.

Sen McCain thinks of it as a responsibilty.

You know my thoughts on the subject,  What about yours?

In Germany, they have universal health care.

They also tax you on how many televisions you have in your house.

(I know I'm new to mog.com, etc etc. but I saw an interesting thread and couldn't resist.)

So I was wondering about the intial post:

"Personally, I'm fed up with Shrub. I am looking for something new."

It's interesting that we all seem to hope for something new from political parties that have been in power since well before any of us were born.

It's also interesting that we watch debates hoping to see this "something new" in the candidates, when all that is really conveyed  are recylced talking points and useless (if entertaining) jabs.

This is not to say the candidates aren't to be respected, but lets not kid ourselves about the prospect of a real "something new". 

In fact, the only real hope for something new is the establishment of a viable, strong third party capable of tipping the balance in the Congress. And the probability of that happening is statistical insignificant given the current political climate. 

So we vote for the candidate that is closest to our ideal leader, and both Obama and McCain have the potential to be good leaders.  But jiminy crickets, lets not fool ourselves into believing there is a real possibility of "something new"

In fact, the only real hope for something new is the establishment of a viable, strong third party capable of tipping the balance in the Congress. And the probability of that happening is statistical insignificant given the current political climate.

lockridge I had the same idea. I started a run for the seat in the 15th District of Pennsylvania. Instead of Independent I was picked up by the Libertarian Party.

You can read about some of the journey here.

http://mog.com/I_am/blog_post/142463

and here:

http://mog.com/I_am/blog/143932

I had to watch the whole stinkin' thing because my wife wanted to.  I was done after about fifteen minutes when I realized I had pretty much heard everything they were going to say already, and I had 105 minutes left to hear them repeat the same things over and over and over again.  Why do we even have debates?  Nothing new is said, no questions are actually answered, and we are all left feeling cheated and dissappointed.

Instead, we should have a freaking cage match.

I disagree with Lockridge.  I don't believe that just because a candidate belongs to one party or the other, it makes that candidate incapable of being "something new."  I believe that despite a person's political association, he has his own ideas and views.  Some will have the cajones to put them into play, some won't.

Chuck, thats it! A cage match. I vote for a tag team "full ticket" cage match instead though.

I think Obama would be too gentlemanly to hit a woman or a senior citizen.

McCain...well, he's 70-something and can't lift his hand above his shoulder.

I think Sarah Palin would fight dirty.

Biden might kick some ass.

I think Michelle Obama could take them all out.

I watched the debate simultaneously with an Edgar Allen Poe movie adaptation starring Vincent Price so I was really just pikcing up candidate nuance...and what I picked up from Obama was Zen-like calm...(and I voted for Hillary in the primaries!)

Troy. I agree, Michelle could stare em down and pretty much destroy them. But are you suggesting Obama/Biden would cheat and have Michelle jump out of a side hatch for a surprise 3 on 2 attack? ..just wondering. All we need now is a folding chair and we have a full on brawl!

Troy I agree to a certain point.

How many times during this election did you hear someone say "I don't really like either one of the canidates."

The strangle hold of the 2 party system is massive. Sure we have a choice but what kind of choice is 1 or the other. Wouldn't it be great if we had just one more realistic and viable canidate on the ticket?

I still think McCain/Obama still answer to their parties, cajones or not.

As for national health care. I like the idea of self managed care and responsibility. My feeling is that it would drive prices down, but at the same time I think we need to have a mechinism to take care of the people who can't afford the care they need.

The Fed has made healthcare expensive with regulation and intervention. Like military spending HMO's and the comapies under Medicare/Aid are paying the high costs that drug comapnies, hospitals, and doctors are asking. Wouldn't you naturally charge more if you knew your patients had the deep pockets of the government behind them?

TroyPowers point is well taken. Individuality in a campaign is paramount, particularly when marketing a candidate to the general populace (including myself). However, new ideas and innovative leadership doesn't necessarily follow, which is particularly clear in candidates in the last 28 years.

Anyway, with regard to the debates, I've heard more innovative and interesting discussions in a parking lot at 2am between people much smarter than me. So I suppose I'm preparing myself for disapointment in any case. Ironically, it's been the most interesting campaign in my generation. We(I, in particular) hope the result is a fundamental change in Amercan government (demonstrating that TroyPowers is right). 

BTW, I'm listening to Lou Reed, and I'm feeling optimistic, how ironic is that?

lockridge are you sure your listening to Reed and not some other band.

Just kidding. Velvets are my dead first favorite band, Sonic Youth comes in a close second.

I am.

Ah.. Sonic Youth. Its been awhile since I've listed to them. Almost 14 years in fact. Gots to find some.

Don't worry it will be here sooner than you think.

Look for my next post.

Iam sez:

The Fed has made healthcare expensive with regulation and intervention. Like military spending HMO's and the comapies under Medicare/Aid are paying the high costs that drug comapnies, hospitals, and doctors are asking. Wouldn't you naturally charge more if you knew your patients had the deep pockets of the government behind them?

This is the difference between Obama and McCain on healthcare..McCain wants it to be a free market and Obama doesn't.  I think free markets are great for widgets, but not for healthcare. 

Are we not the only country in the "civilized world" that's even thinking of doing healthcare the McCain way? I didn't particularly like Michael Moore's movie, Sicko..but one thing I did get out of it, is the peace of mind people in places like England and France have when it comes to health care.  They just don't have to worry about going to the doctor if they are sick or have a pre-existing condition. They don't have to fight with an insurance company (who only cares about their bottom line) over proper documentation of a receipt submitted for reimbursement.

Healthcare must be regulated..if it is run on free market principles, then all decisions are made by cost/benefit analysis, not what's best for patients.  Companies should not benefit because people are sick. The bottom line should be health not profit.

Nice post title. I had a witty response full of pictures and everything lined out yesterday and then my internet died and I lost it. 

All I have left is this remnant and a note that I don't like Obama or McCain and I wouldn't vote for this feller either...

If he gets in...Obama will only have one term. Whoever it is has a mess to straighten out (thank you Bill "give everyone a mortgage" Clinton!) and is going to be a sacrificial lamb.